"Jane and Arianna have supported Jack and Jill Politics since the site first launched in 2006. They were there for us probably even before some of you heard about JJP. In the case of Jane, she's become a friend over the years. I may not agree with all of her positions, but I respect her work and her commitment. When she and Pachacutec of FDL asked us to join Common Sense Media, it made sense to us. Why shouldn't African-American blogs benefit from advertisers too -- especially when most of CSM's major advertisers are nonprofit organizations whose aims we tend to support."
To me, this comes across as "I value these folks, whose agenda has been proven to be shady, over the readers who helped make JJP the success it is".
Cheryl, what you seem to forget is that it's the READERSHIP and COMMENTERS that make or break a blog. So, Jane and Arianna can "support" JJP all they want. Once the blog traffic stops, then what? You may wanna take note of the drop off in comments since you all began your "Obama Is Throwing Progressives Under The Bus" mission. You may wanna note the number of "Likes" whenever a JJP commentor points out the lies JJP has helped Arianna, Jane, John Avarosis...etc. spread, and the "Fuck You JJP commentors" tone you have exhibited.
"Love IMO doesn’t mean loving everything a person does but being honest with each other."
How condescending, lazy and Tavis Smiley of you, trying to paint those who criticize JJP as a bunch of people who are blinded by love for Obama. Instead of throwing slick Republican/PUMA-esque commentary at us, address the concerns presented to you.
You talk about being honest, well that is exactly what JJP has NOT been doing for several months. If you want to hold Obama accountable, then do so based on TRUTH and FACTS, not lies, innuendo and faux outrage from your friends Jane Hamsher and Arianna Huffington, just so you can increase web traffic, or else you are no better than Tavis Smiley and his crew.
Arianna is a visionary if by visionary you mean someone who can only see dollar signs and will do and say whatever it takes to get those dolla, dolla bills.
"Warriors in the struggle"? Let's be 110% real, Cheryl. Since the election, the majority of your and Baratunde/Jack blog posts have been to promote your appearances at conferences and on TV, or to complain because the NAACP didn't give your computer company a contract. The activism and analysis that was present during the campaign has fallen off tremendously.
IMO, your response just confirms my suspicions that it's all about the C.R.E.A.M. and getting put on for you.
Shanti2
· 1 month ago
"Warriors in the struggle"? Let's be 110% real, Cheryl. Since the election, the majority of your and Baratunde/Jack blog posts have been to promote your appearances at conferences and on TV, or to complain because the NAACP didn't give your computer company a contract. The activism and analysis that was present during the campaign has fallen off tremendously.
IMO, your response just confirms my suspicions that it's all about the C.R.E.A.M. and getting put on for you.
You got it, Sepia!
This line would do well in a comedy club:
"My hope is that we can continue to talk about how best to support the President and his agenda and ensure on JJP that we’re representing the diversity of opinion in the African-American community on JJP." You mean representing FDL & HuffPo's nonsense.
Honestly, I think it is you, Jill who has been in the fish bowl and is not tuned in to the diversity of opinion in the "African American" BLACK community at large. If you were, you'd know that no matter how much education you or any us have, BLACK folks do not take kindly to condescending, bullshit, responses like the one you posted this morning.
My dad's got an 8th grade education and could smell this shit a mile away!
I don't want your hand to get chafed from that virtual smackdown. LMAO.
Shanti2
· 1 month ago
**DEAD**
SouthernGirl2
· 1 month ago
*dead too*
Miranda
· 1 month ago
"Warriors in the struggle"? Let's be 110% real, Cheryl. Since the election, the majority of your and Baratunde/Jack blog posts have been to promote your appearances at conferences and on TV, or to complain because the NAACP didn't give your computer company a contract. The activism and analysis that was present during the campaign has fallen off tremendously."
Arianna is a visionary if by visionary you mean someone who can only see dollar signs and will do and say whatever it takes to get those dolla, dolla bills.
Since the election, the majority of your and Baratunde/Jack blog posts have been to promote your appearances at conferences and on TV, or to complain because the NAACP didn't give your computer company a contract. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh! Oh!
Wee See You!
PBomb
· 1 month ago
I honestly felt that the response was a bit patronizing. Between the three of them, all they were able to gather or respond to was that apparently we have bruised egos, have issues with their affiliation with Common Sense Media, and that apparently our lack of whining is synonmous(sp?)with being a lovestruck teenager who has just had their heart crushed by the popular quarterback of the football team in a Harlenquin Romance novel.
See if they had honestly read through the comments and post, then the they could have figured out that the beef we really have is the lazy, apologist approach to journalism that the JJP as a site has decided to take.
As for Huffington Post, there is now a site of current and prior HuffPo posters who have serious complaints about the website's blaring, inaccurate or misleading headlines. Their complaint is that the site has taken a different path because Arianna is opportunist. Also since the site has been financially supported by a hedge fund, it's content has changed. FDL is also placed in the same category.
Al Giordano of The Field, summarizes Jane and HuffPo best:
It’s been an entire summer of silliness from both of those camps; from the “Obama is a socialist” club to “Obama is another Bush” chorus, the infantile nature of so much of US politics has been on full display with the health care debate as its fulcrum.
Although during this same Summer of Shove of 2009, the President was repeatedly clear on his desire for a public option in the health care law that has eluded every administration since that of Harry Truman in the 1940s and 50s, he was accused again and again of not really wanting it or seeking it.
Among them are those like the whiny voice of blogger Jane Hamsher - still bitter that Obama beat her candidate Clinton in the primaries - who on August 17 declared, “Many people are rightly upset that the White House is sending stronger and stronger signals that they are willing to jettison a public option. What was once the defining feature of the Obama health care plan has now been dismissed with a bipartisan flourish.” Then on September 10 repeated, “the White House has been trying to get out from under th e burden of supporting the public option for weeks.” Then on September 18 re-repeated, “President Obama has been desperate to ditch the public option for weeks.”
Such prattling has been duly featured at the Huffington Post along with daily “reports” (read: rumors based mainly on the statements of unnamed sources inside the beltway, but played as hard news) to feed the HuffPo editorial line, which goes like this: Obama doesn’t want a public option on health care and so “the base” (white college educated progressives, especially of the blogging tendency) has to “make him do it.”
That narrative has been a good example of the typical self-aggrandizing attempt by a certain tendency to insist that the story is about them (most of whom already do have health insurance, by the way, and don’t mix very much with we hoi polloi that do not).
As Al Giordano, Booman, Ezra Klein and others have stated the President has always been for the public option and has let it be known that is what he is for. That was pointed out at a certain moderator over at JJP for a while. The chorus of ignorance kept flowing. Ed "I have lost my ever loving mind" Schultz is constantly used as a reference for information. He is a complete ratings whore.
I had to go to non-black sources for information. They were being more positive and have some semblance of how the legislative process works. There isn't a pseudo economic "expert" on these sites who continuously regurgitate erroneous crap that they have read off of Bloomberg News or from Dr. Doom.
All I have to say is stop with the semantics and the lazy ass analysis of politics. Politics is messy, can be dirty, and confusing. Your job is to make it clearer in an unbiased way without some agenda to achieve. Your job is to explain what the legislative process entails and how terribly slow it is. It isn't shouting how Obama should have closed Guantanamo Bay, DADT, DOMA, and ENDA should have been overturned, all the jobs lost should have been re-created, and all foreclosures should come to a halt all in 10-1/2 months.
Can you do that? Answer that for me. Until you do, I guess I will go and continue to look into that fish bowl and give the President and his administration a lesson in love and honesty. I could also tell him that one day when he grows up and becomes President for the Progressive wing that I will make sure to keep his feet to fire by incessantly pushing keys on my computer telling him that everything he says is "just words", and that the piss on my leg feels like rain.
How about this, don't shower me with ignorance and call it analysis.
carolinagirl
· 1 month ago
How about this, don't shower me with ignorance and call it analysis.
Damn!!!I'm sooooo glad you're back PBomb.
Shanti2
· 1 month ago
I'll have what Pbomb's having!
SouthernGirl2
· 1 month ago
Wee AIN'T gonna play!
Shanti2
· 1 month ago
HE-LL No! JJP can do JJP, and WEE can do WEESeeYou, but if you bring shit that paints distortions, mistruths, and falsehoods about PBO, WEE will CALL IT!
laRapierWit
· 1 month ago
PBomb...you. broke. it. down....well said very well said!!
Sepia
· 1 month ago
AMEN!
SouthernGirl2
· 1 month ago
PBomb,
Preach!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tell the truth! Keep this up and I'm gonna get my white handkerchief out!
"That love includes accountability though. We know that the White House is a fishbowl. We aim to help the President stay focused and deliver on his promises of change – especially where black folks are concerned."
I'm not clear how JJP holds the President accountable when their "accounts" of his actions are often misleading, frequently inflammatory and typically spun in the worst possible light. Important facts, evidence and contrary analyses are all too often suppressed because they don't support the Jane Hamsher/Arianna Huffington narrative of weakness and betrayal.
Examples of this type of blogging at JJP are legion and have documented on the earlier thread. Those seeking to hold the president accountable have a DUTY to present accurate information (not conspiracy theories and speculation), investigate controversial claims from dubious sources, and provide rigorous analysis.
The President deserves better than JJP. Black people deserve better than JJP.
SouthernGirl2
· 1 month ago
Important facts, evidence and contrary analyses are all too often suppressed because they don't support the Jane Hamsher/Arianna Huffington narrative of weakness and betrayal.
Is not JJP to be held accountable for their actions?
One can't dance with the devil and not get burned!
Shanti2
· 1 month ago
Tell it, Alexander2. Heaven knows FDL & HuffPo couldn't have JJP presenting PBO in a positve light... especially for BLACK PEOPLE!
FUCK Jane & Arianna. I don't give a flying fuck about those women, I do give a damn about BLACK PEOPLE!
"The President deserves better than JJP. Black people deserve better than JJP.'
SouthernGirl2
· 1 month ago
Come on, Jill, that all you got?
WEESeeYou, Cheryl/Jill!
My grandmother(bless her soul) in her lifetime loved strong black coffee, if one served her coffee that wasn't strong like she wanted...she would send it back and called it... "weak pee"!
Jill, that response is weak. We're not 13 year old teenie boppers here infatuated with a boy at junior high! Come on....be for real!
Jill: In the case of Jane, she’s become a friend over the years. I may not agree with all of her positions, but I respect her work and her commitment.
Jane Hamsher: Joe Lieberman Blackfaced, Jane Hamsher Redfaced
Jane Hamsher's non apology apology:“I sincerely apologize to anyone who was genuinely offended by the choice of images accompanying my blog post today on the Huffington Post.
Shanti2
· 1 month ago
Oh, Oh! Miss Jane gets to paint YT in blackface and issue a non apology.
Now that is evidence of some commited work right there.
I clearly understand how much Jill respect Jane's work....
SouthernGirl2
· 1 month ago
My hope is that we can continue to respect each other as everyday warriors in the struggle and continue to work side-by-side when our interests align.
Hello Jill,
Just thinking about your words...."Love IMO doesn't mean loving everything a person does but being honest with each other".
Jill, love means respecting a person even if one has disagreements with them. In that JJP committed Epic Fail. Where is calling or allowing someone from your blog to call our first black President a "wuss", "weak", a "sell-out punk" an expression of love? Jill, that is destructive, it's fighting words meant to destroy. It's not an attack on policy, it's a personal attack on his manhood. As a woman, I am sure you know there are some things one just doesn't do---you doNOT attack a man's manhood. Those attacks can never be taken back and the damage is done. You nor anyone else at JJP came out and denounced it. We took it as JJP being in agreement with it.
You've not addressed the issues at all that we've brought up in this thread. Is your allegiance more with Arianna & Jane Hamsher than the black community? Please tell us. Your blog is directed at a black bourgeoisie perspective on U.S. politics! I don't see it that way any more. Arianna & Jane may have helped JJP to get started but it is bloggers that kept it moving and made it what it is today. IMO, JJP haven't lived up to it promise with the black community. It seems you've lost sight of your original goal and that is serving the black community. Is not JJP to be held accountable for their actions?
Lastly, I would think JJP would be so proud of one of their own top commenters being able to get a seat sitting so close behind the President that one could reach out and touch him. JJP had to be called upon by other commenters to acknowledge it's own top commenter "Spirit". That is major Epic Fail! A seat sitting behind the President is not given to anyone, that would have to be earned. Spirit earned that seat by her loyal enduring hard work, just as she was loyal on JJP. She came to JJP daily fighting for the cause and having nearly 12,000 posts prooves it. It takes commenters to push a blog. JJP owes Spirit an apology.
SouthernGirl2
Shanti2
· 1 month ago
Spirit doesn't want or NEED an apology from JJP, not at the expense of Miss Jane & Arianna....
cheryl aka jill tubman
· 1 month ago
Hi -- wanted to let you know I read all the comments. You guys have some good points that I want to consider with the seriousness they deserve and also discuss with our team. We are proud of Spirit (of course!) -- one of our key goals has always been to showcase how amazing and intelligent our commenters are in order to put the lie to media fallacies that we all think alike, that we are all stupid, etc. We'd like to find better ways to show that pride in the black community.
We are also proud of you -- WeeSeeYou is a great blog and an incredible community in its own right. I hear you saying that I did not respond to your concerns about collusion: I should clarify that the extent of our legal relationship with CommonSense Media is that they have a couple of ad tiles on our site and we share the revenue wit them. We do not nor never have discussed editorial decisions with them as part of that deal.
Re: Arianna -- Baratunde occasionally blogs over there and we've received links from HuffPo to a few of our posts. We don't discuss editorial with HuffPo either. End of story. I thought it was cool to meet her in person -- I can see how you might view that differently & respect your opinion.
We're not trained journalists -- I have a full time job, rikyrah has a full time job and Baratunde has like 5 jobs. JJP is a labor of love for all involved. We're just regular folk with big mouths. We're still learning as we go along. I want you to know how much we appreciate your insights. As I said, let's continue to talk about it - how we can improve and how we can all better work together toward common goals. If you feel we're slippin' -- well, that's important for us to know so we can do better.
It's possible that we may not always agree with each other. Not all black bloggers nor black people agree on everything, especially when it comes to politics! Still, my hope remains that we can respect each other enough to be frank and to listen to each other with respect even if we don't always agree.
Thanks y'all for continuing the conversation.
Alexander2
· 1 month ago
Jill, please take a look at the front page of JJP tonight. Rikyrah is freaking out because CBS news is reporting that President Obama has decided to send 40,000 additional troops to Afghanistan.
But, within the thread, numerous commentators are linking to articles stating that the administration strongly denies the CBS report. In one article linked to, General Jones makes a rare public statement to say the CBS report is false.
We know that news agencies will print almost anything to out-scoop the competitors. All of these reports on important issues of the day have to be treated with some degree of skepticism, especially in the face of vehement denials from the administration. I'm not a journalist either, but maybe you could ask Rikyrah to update her initial post with updates as other contradictory information comes in. The "update" standard is uniformly used across the blogosphere. Why is JJP an exception?
Tonight is no exception. For the last four or five months, any rumor or speculation about the administration is printed on the front page of JJP as if it is the literal truth, more so if it is negative and damning.
Concerning your role at JJP, I have to concur with what so may commentors here have said. Nearly every one of your posts is self-serving. They are all about the fabulous life of Cheryl aka jill tubman --- Hey beotches, I'm in the South of France for a wedding (look at me); now I'm about to participate in a conference call with the President on health care so submit your questions. You didn't get back to us about what the president said in any detail. I learned what the President said during that conference call by reading Booman Tribute. How fucked up is that?
JJP is this: Rikyrah is the drama queen freaking out about any rumor. Jill is the fabulous jetsetter, who gives nothing; when was the last time you posted something that was not about you? Jack is scattered, spacey and uncentered; he can't have an in-depth debate about the policies of this administration because he ill informed.
I'm disappointed with you guys. You all might love the president and still get that tingle when he come on television. But JJP is not qualified to hold him accountable because the three of you are lazy and have your own agendas. It's wrong and you have to know its wrong.
Good night, fabulous Jill.
Shanti2
· 1 month ago
"Rikyrah is the drama queen freaking out about any rumor."
(And she's used to plant the FEAR!)
Jill is the fabulous jetsetter, who gives nothing; when was the last time you posted something that was not about you?
(NEVER! It's ALL about fabulous Jill!)
" Jack is scattered, spacey and uncentered; he can't have an in-depth debate about the policies of this administration because he ill informed.'
(And he fits right in with the MSNBC, CNN crowd)
"But JJP is not qualified to hold him accountable because the three of you are lazy and have your own agendas. It's wrong and you have to know its wrong."
BRILLIANT, Alex! when does the play go to Broadway?!
laRapierWit
· 1 month ago
DAYuuuuummmm!! Alex....you was on FIYAH!!!
loved the farewell most of all!!!
lmao
cheryl aka jill tubman
· 1 month ago
Thanks Alexander2 -- I've shared your comments with Baratunde and rikyrah. I appreciate your input. We've updated rikyrah's post re: troop levels, btw, with the new info. Also, I did holler back post-Obama call. However, it did take a few days since I wanted to do some analysis. Here's the post in case you missed it:
Bloggers do suffer from fatigue at times -- I appreciate your reminder that we need to stay sharp in order to stay relevant. Thanks again and take care.
PBomb
· 1 month ago
I have read that post before. Since, you were involved in the phone call, then why were there posts about where the White House stood on the Public Option?
Why wasn't the phone call utilized as a constantly reference of where the President stands on the Public option? As I have stated before, I have read other bloggers who were on that phone call and gave accounts of what was said. All of them stated that the President wanted a Public Option. He understood that the House and the Senate are two completely different entities who are going push out different bills. He didn't expect them to have the same ideas in the bills. He has stated that the final bill he wants signed should involve a public option, keeping costs down, stopping recission, etc.
Why did JJP decide to push the meme that the President was wavering on the Public Option?
Thanks for updating one blog entry, but there are several in the past that should have been updated as well.
Shanti2
· 1 month ago
Hi Jill-wanted to let you know I read your comments. You made the same points that you made on the previous thread, and personally, I did not take any of it seriously.
Please, you don't know or care about Spirit any more than rikyrah did. And frankly, for me I believe your key goal is to showcase how amazingly intelligent you are. (Cue Sidwell tapes)
Thank God we don't all think alike, because the post on JJP crossed the line in playing to the STUPID. I think I've made myself clear in providing feedback on the services y'all provided for the black community.
Your acknowledging WEESEEYOU is a day late and a dollar short. The damage has been done. Our trust has been violated, and your psycho babble of reflecting what you think you hear is utterly useless to me.
You and Baratunde continue the lovefest that you have with HuffPo's Arianna, and FDL's Jane Hamsher. I have no interest in either or your meeting and befriending them. END OF STORY!
As far as your not being trained journalist, well neither am I, which would make me want to be cognizant of what I write and post in the name of SERVING THE BLACK COMMUNITY. I work full time too, and still find time to put some time and thought into what I comment and post. It isn't always great, but I don't post disrespectful shit about the president, and rants, and post threads without some balanced analysis. Y'all have taught me well in this regard.
As you can see, I'm not buying that excuse.
As with rikyrah's comment about doing it as a LABOR of LOVE, I'll repeat, I wasn't feeling the LOVE!
Initially, I think your (JJP') intentions were honorable, now, NOPE!
You and Jack did JJP a diservice when you left Rikyrah to her own devices and I think you both could have provided her with more support. We can agree to disagree, and if you want respect, you have to give it.
So if part of the collusion with FDL and HuffPo was to post anti-Obama shit for hits, it worked to get the reactions and the traffic. So how does it feel now that JJP's getting half the traffic that it used to get? HOW'S THAT WORKING FOR YA?
In any case, I have no desire to visit JJP.
In the words of GreenLadyHere, I'M TH-AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAROUGH!
laRapierWit
· 1 month ago
Shanti, that was a very thorough and detailed analysis of the situation...dead on point.
You told it ALL!
SouthernGirl2
· 1 month ago
"You guys have some good points that I want to consider with the seriousness they deserve and also discuss with our team".
When is that going to happen, Jill? Because it's NOT in the responses you've given. Your responses are crock! Are you kidding?
Is selling out the black community for money worth it? You have become no better than Congressman William Jefferson & James Harris! OMFG! How could you sell out your own people?!?!
Since you're not a trained journalist does that give you the excuse to write misleading headlines & false information about the President?
JJP had become a place that I loved because it was about our people! But not anymore! Y'all kept up the lies & half-truths until you destroyed it.
Good bye, Jill
Shanti2
· 1 month ago
"Since you're not a trained journalist does that give you the excuse to write misleading headlines & false information about the President?"
No it gives them the excuse to trash the POTUS for the all mighty dollar and some airtime. Obama bashing is a hot commodity doncha know!
SouthernGirl2
· 1 month ago
"As for Huffington Post, there is now a site of current and prior HuffPo posters who have serious complaints about the website's blaring, inaccurate or misleading headlines. Their complaint is that the site has taken a different path because Arianna is opportunist. Also since the site has been financially supported by a hedge fund, it's content has changed. FDL is also placed in the same category".
The site is PlanetPOV. These people are on the money about Arianna Huffington. She's an opportunist that only care about more hits, more traffic and that means more money. The eyes came open for these posters. Why is it so hard for JJP to see this? Talk about being blind in one eye and can't see out of the other!
Shanti2
· 1 month ago
Here's what's telling for me on where Jill stands.
1. Anyone else notice that Cheryl (aka Jill), did not CONGRATULATE WEESeeYou?
You acknowledge and appreciate some former JJP contributers to your blog, but not one mention of congratulations. Not that it would mean anything to me, because I see clearly where your loyalites lie.
2. Not one mention of accepting responsibility for the outright HATERADE for the President. Your lame excuse of holding POTUS accountable doesn't mean horsehit! You and the rest of your pals are capitalizing off the "ACCOUNTABILITY' card.
Pbomb's on point. How very, very, "Travenesque" of y'all.......
Toodles! Continued Happy Travels!
WordSmith
· 1 month ago
This is just a question... do you ever think you're being overly sensitive? Sometimes I forget shit in the midst of writing, and sometimes I'm just uncomfortable offering thanks or congratulations.
Shanti2
· 1 month ago
No, and I am neither uncomfortable offering thanks or congratulations when they are warranted.
baratunde
· 1 month ago
There is a lot of truth to your analysis and of course it hurts my ego to read the things said here, but that goes with the territory, and it's good to hear it. We do take the criticism seriously. Community trust is difficult to earn, easy to lose and harder to regain. I take responsibility for much of what you've called out. My own participation at JJP dropped off significantly beginning in the summer due to some extreme personal circumstances from which I haven't fully recovered. I know that has had an effect on the site, so I can see a lot of what you're talking about.
Of course, I don't agree with everything said here or how it's been said, but my purpose here isn't to get defensive. It's really to acknowledge the situation, and let you know that "we see you" as well. I'm not sure how much more back and forth we'll have via these comments, or if we'll just ask you to monitor the site over the coming months. Either way, thanks for holding US accountable.
BTW, nice blog design :)
Sincerely & peace, - Scattered Jack
PBomb
· 1 month ago
Thank you for your honesty.
If we were harsh about what we said, it's because we are passionate and pissed about how the President and this administration is getting an unfair shake at things. I am pretty young, but I remember the treatment that previous administrations have gotten and it doesn't compare.
We know that there are other external forces and the media will hold Obama to an impossibly higher standard just to see him fail. JJP was suppose to be an escape from that.
Thanks again for acknowledging our opinions.
laRapierWit
· 1 month ago
Baratunde...thanks for Seeing US!
Your honesty was refreshing.
Shanti2
· 1 month ago
Baratunde, I appreciate your willingness to accept responsibility for your role.
Shanti2
· 1 month ago
BTW Jack, I will not be monitoring your site; it is what you and Jill and the rest of your team need to accept responsibility in maintaining a balance. WEESeeYou's post to JJP is a call to ACTION!
All Comments
To me, this comes across as "I value these folks, whose agenda has been proven to be shady, over the readers who helped make JJP the success it is".
Cheryl, what you seem to forget is that it's the READERSHIP and COMMENTERS that make or break a blog. So, Jane and Arianna can "support" JJP all they want. Once the blog traffic stops, then what? You may wanna take note of the drop off in comments since you all began your "Obama Is Throwing Progressives Under The Bus" mission. You may wanna note the number of "Likes" whenever a JJP commentor points out the lies JJP has helped Arianna, Jane, John Avarosis...etc. spread, and the "Fuck You JJP commentors" tone you have exhibited.
"Love IMO doesn’t mean loving everything a person does but being honest with each other."
How condescending, lazy and Tavis Smiley of you, trying to paint those who criticize JJP as a bunch of people who are blinded by love for Obama. Instead of throwing slick Republican/PUMA-esque commentary at us, address the concerns presented to you.
You talk about being honest, well that is exactly what JJP has NOT been doing for several months. If you want to hold Obama accountable, then do so based on TRUTH and FACTS, not lies, innuendo and faux outrage from your friends Jane Hamsher and Arianna Huffington, just so you can increase web traffic, or else you are no better than Tavis Smiley and his crew.
Arianna is a visionary if by visionary you mean someone who can only see dollar signs and will do and say whatever it takes to get those dolla, dolla bills.
"Warriors in the struggle"? Let's be 110% real, Cheryl. Since the election, the majority of your and Baratunde/Jack blog posts have been to promote your appearances at conferences and on TV, or to complain because the NAACP didn't give your computer company a contract. The activism and analysis that was present during the campaign has fallen off tremendously.
IMO, your response just confirms my suspicions that it's all about the C.R.E.A.M. and getting put on for you.
IMO, your response just confirms my suspicions that it's all about the C.R.E.A.M. and getting put on for you.
You got it, Sepia!
This line would do well in a comedy club:
"My hope is that we can continue to talk about how best to support the President and his agenda and ensure on JJP that we’re representing the diversity of opinion in the African-American community on JJP." You mean representing FDL & HuffPo's
nonsense.
Honestly, I think it is you, Jill who has been in the fish bowl and is not tuned in to the diversity of opinion in the "African American" BLACK community at large. If you were, you'd know that no matter how much education you or any us have, BLACK folks do not take kindly to condescending, bullshit, responses like the one you posted this morning.
My dad's got an 8th grade education and could smell this shit a mile away!
I don't want your hand to get chafed from that virtual smackdown. LMAO.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95SYdjRVCR0&feat...
ROFLMAO!!
Since the election, the majority of your and Baratunde/Jack blog posts have been to promote your appearances at conferences and on TV, or to complain because the NAACP didn't give your computer company a contract.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh! Oh!
Wee See You!
See if they had honestly read through the comments and post, then the they could have figured out that the beef we really have is the lazy, apologist approach to journalism that the JJP as a site has decided to take.
As for Huffington Post, there is now a site of current and prior HuffPo posters who have serious complaints about the website's blaring, inaccurate or misleading headlines. Their complaint is that the site has taken a different path because Arianna is opportunist. Also since the site has been financially supported by a hedge fund, it's content has changed. FDL is also placed in the same category.
Al Giordano of The Field, summarizes Jane and HuffPo best:
It’s been an entire summer of silliness from both of those camps; from the “Obama is a socialist” club to “Obama is another Bush” chorus, the infantile nature of so much of US politics has been on full display with the health care debate as its fulcrum.
Although during this same Summer of Shove of 2009, the President was repeatedly clear on his desire for a public option in the health care law that has eluded every administration since that of Harry Truman in the 1940s and 50s, he was accused again and again of not really wanting it or seeking it.
Among them are those like the whiny voice of blogger Jane Hamsher - still bitter that Obama beat her candidate Clinton in the primaries - who on August 17 declared, “Many people are rightly upset that the White House is sending stronger and stronger signals that they are willing to jettison a public option. What was once the defining feature of the Obama health care plan has now been dismissed with a bipartisan flourish.” Then on September 10 repeated, “the White House has been trying to get out from under th e burden of supporting the public option for weeks.” Then on September 18 re-repeated, “President Obama has been desperate to ditch the public option for weeks.”
Such prattling has been duly featured at the Huffington Post along with daily “reports” (read: rumors based mainly on the statements of unnamed sources inside the beltway, but played as hard news) to feed the HuffPo editorial line, which goes like this: Obama doesn’t want a public option on health care and so “the base” (white college educated progressives, especially of the blogging tendency) has to “make him do it.”
That narrative has been a good example of the typical self-aggrandizing attempt by a certain tendency to insist that the story is about them (most of whom already do have health insurance, by the way, and don’t mix very much with we hoi polloi that do not).
As Al Giordano, Booman, Ezra Klein and others have stated the President has always been for the public option and has let it be known that is what he is for. That was pointed out at a certain moderator over at JJP for a while. The chorus of ignorance kept flowing. Ed "I have lost my ever loving mind" Schultz is constantly used as a reference for information. He is a complete ratings whore.
I had to go to non-black sources for information. They were being more positive and have some semblance of how the legislative process works. There isn't a pseudo economic "expert" on these sites who continuously regurgitate erroneous crap that they have read off of Bloomberg News or from Dr. Doom.
All I have to say is stop with the semantics and the lazy ass analysis of politics. Politics is messy, can be dirty, and confusing. Your job is to make it clearer in an unbiased way without some agenda to achieve. Your job is to explain what the legislative process entails and how terribly slow it is. It isn't shouting how Obama should have closed Guantanamo Bay, DADT, DOMA, and ENDA should have been overturned, all the jobs lost should have been re-created, and all foreclosures should come to a halt all in 10-1/2 months.
Can you do that? Answer that for me. Until you do, I guess I will go and continue to look into that fish bowl and give the President and his administration a lesson in love and honesty. I could also tell him that one day when he grows up and becomes President for the Progressive wing that I will make sure to keep his feet to fire by incessantly pushing keys on my computer telling him that everything he says is "just words", and that the piss on my leg feels like rain.
How about this, don't shower me with ignorance and call it analysis.
Damn!!!I'm sooooo glad you're back PBomb.
that paints distortions, mistruths, and falsehoods about PBO, WEE will CALL
IT!
Preach!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tell the truth! Keep this up and I'm gonna get my white handkerchief out!
I'm not clear how JJP holds the President accountable when their "accounts" of his actions are often misleading, frequently inflammatory and typically spun in the worst possible light. Important facts, evidence and contrary analyses are all too often suppressed because they don't support the Jane Hamsher/Arianna Huffington narrative of weakness and betrayal.
Examples of this type of blogging at JJP are legion and have documented on the earlier thread. Those seeking to hold the president accountable have a DUTY to present accurate information (not conspiracy theories and speculation), investigate controversial claims from dubious sources, and provide rigorous analysis.
The President deserves better than JJP. Black people deserve better than JJP.
Is not JJP to be held accountable for their actions?
One can't dance with the devil and not get burned!
FUCK Jane & Arianna. I don't give a flying fuck about those women, I do give a damn about BLACK PEOPLE!
"The President deserves better than JJP. Black people deserve better than JJP.'
WEESeeYou, Cheryl/Jill!
My grandmother(bless her soul) in her lifetime loved strong black coffee, if one served her coffee that wasn't strong like she wanted...she would send it back and called it...
"weak pee"!
Jill, that response is weak. We're not 13 year old teenie boppers here infatuated with a boy at junior high! Come on....be for real!
Jill: In the case of Jane, she’s become a friend over the years. I may not agree with all of her positions, but I respect her work and her commitment.
Jane Hamsher: Joe Lieberman Blackfaced, Jane Hamsher Redfaced
Jane Hamsher's non apology apology: “I sincerely apologize to anyone who was genuinely offended by the choice of images accompanying my blog post today on the Huffington Post.
Now that is evidence of some commited work right there.
I clearly understand how much Jill respect Jane's work....
Hello Jill,
Just thinking about your words...."Love IMO doesn't mean loving everything a person does but being honest with each other".
Jill, love means respecting a person even if one has disagreements with them. In that JJP committed Epic Fail. Where is calling or allowing someone from your blog to call our first black President a "wuss", "weak", a "sell-out punk" an expression of love? Jill, that is destructive, it's fighting words meant to destroy. It's not an attack on policy, it's a personal attack on his manhood. As a woman, I am sure you know there are some things one just doesn't do---you doNOT attack a man's manhood. Those attacks can never be taken back and the damage is done. You nor anyone else at JJP came out and denounced it. We took it as JJP being in agreement with it.
You've not addressed the issues at all that we've brought up in this thread. Is your allegiance more with Arianna & Jane Hamsher than the black community? Please tell us. Your blog is directed at a black bourgeoisie perspective on U.S. politics! I don't see it that way any more. Arianna & Jane may have helped JJP to get started but it is bloggers that kept it moving and made it what it is today. IMO, JJP haven't lived up to it promise with the black community. It seems you've lost sight of your original goal and that is serving the black community. Is not JJP to be held accountable for their actions?
Lastly, I would think JJP would be so proud of one of their own top commenters being able to get a seat sitting so close behind the President that one could reach out and touch him. JJP had to be called upon by other commenters to acknowledge it's own top commenter "Spirit". That is major Epic Fail! A seat sitting behind the President is not given to anyone, that would have to be earned. Spirit earned that seat by her loyal enduring hard work, just as she was loyal on JJP. She came to JJP daily fighting for the cause and having nearly 12,000 posts prooves it. It takes commenters to push a blog. JJP owes Spirit an apology.
SouthernGirl2
We are also proud of you -- WeeSeeYou is a great blog and an incredible community in its own right. I hear you saying that I did not respond to your concerns about collusion: I should clarify that the extent of our legal relationship with CommonSense Media is that they have a couple of ad tiles on our site and we share the revenue wit them. We do not nor never have discussed editorial decisions with them as part of that deal.
Re: Arianna -- Baratunde occasionally blogs over there and we've received links from HuffPo to a few of our posts. We don't discuss editorial with HuffPo either. End of story. I thought it was cool to meet her in person -- I can see how you might view that differently & respect your opinion.
We're not trained journalists -- I have a full time job, rikyrah has a full time job and Baratunde has like 5 jobs. JJP is a labor of love for all involved. We're just regular folk with big mouths. We're still learning as we go along. I want you to know how much we appreciate your insights. As I said, let's continue to talk about it - how we can improve and how we can all better work together toward common goals. If you feel we're slippin' -- well, that's important for us to know so we can do better.
It's possible that we may not always agree with each other. Not all black bloggers nor black people agree on everything, especially when it comes to politics! Still, my hope remains that we can respect each other enough to be frank and to listen to each other with respect even if we don't always agree.
Thanks y'all for continuing the conversation.
But, within the thread, numerous commentators are linking to articles stating that the administration strongly denies the CBS report. In one article linked to, General Jones makes a rare public statement to say the CBS report is false.
We know that news agencies will print almost anything to out-scoop the competitors. All of these reports on important issues of the day have to be treated with some degree of skepticism, especially in the face of vehement denials from the administration. I'm not a journalist either, but maybe you could ask Rikyrah to update her initial post with updates as other contradictory information comes in. The "update" standard is uniformly used across the blogosphere. Why is JJP an exception?
Tonight is no exception. For the last four or five months, any rumor or speculation about the administration is printed on the front page of JJP as if it is the literal truth, more so if it is negative and damning.
Concerning your role at JJP, I have to concur with what so may commentors here have said. Nearly every one of your posts is self-serving. They are all about the fabulous life of Cheryl aka jill tubman --- Hey beotches, I'm in the South of France for a wedding (look at me); now I'm about to participate in a conference call with the President on health care so submit your questions. You didn't get back to us about what the president said in any detail. I learned what the President said during that conference call by reading Booman Tribute. How fucked up is that?
JJP is this: Rikyrah is the drama queen freaking out about any rumor. Jill is the fabulous jetsetter, who gives nothing; when was the last time you posted something that was not about you? Jack is scattered, spacey and uncentered; he can't have an in-depth debate about the policies of this administration because he ill informed.
I'm disappointed with you guys. You all might love the president and still get that tingle when he come on television. But JJP is not qualified to hold him accountable because the three of you are lazy and have your own agendas. It's wrong and you have to know its wrong.
Good night, fabulous Jill.
(And she's used to plant the FEAR!)
Jill is the fabulous jetsetter, who gives nothing; when was the last time you posted something that was not about you?
(NEVER! It's ALL about fabulous Jill!)
" Jack is scattered, spacey and uncentered; he can't have an in-depth debate about the policies of this administration because he ill informed.'
(And he fits right in with the MSNBC, CNN crowd)
"But JJP is not qualified to hold him accountable because the three of you are lazy and have your own agendas. It's wrong and you have to know its wrong."
BRILLIANT, Alex! when does the play go to Broadway?!
Alex....you was on FIYAH!!!
loved the farewell most of all!!!
lmao
appreciate your input. We've updated rikyrah's post re: troop levels, btw,
with the new info. Also, I did holler back post-Obama call. However, it did
take a few days since I wanted to do some analysis. Here's the post in case
you missed it:
http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/07/jjp-...
Bloggers do suffer from fatigue at times -- I appreciate your reminder that
we need to stay sharp in order to stay relevant. Thanks again and take care.
Why wasn't the phone call utilized as a constantly reference of where the President stands on the Public option? As I have stated before, I have read other bloggers who were on that phone call and gave accounts of what was said. All of them stated that the President wanted a Public Option. He understood that the House and the Senate are two completely different entities who are going push out different bills. He didn't expect them to have the same ideas in the bills. He has stated that the final bill he wants signed should involve a public option, keeping costs down, stopping recission, etc.
Why did JJP decide to push the meme that the President was wavering on the Public Option?
Thanks for updating one blog entry, but there are several in the past that should have been updated as well.
Please, you don't know or care about Spirit any more than rikyrah did. And frankly, for me I believe your key goal is to showcase how amazingly intelligent you are. (Cue Sidwell tapes)
Thank God we don't all think alike, because the post on JJP crossed the line in playing to the STUPID. I think I've made myself clear in providing feedback on the services y'all provided for the black community.
Your acknowledging WEESEEYOU is a day late and a dollar short. The damage has been done. Our trust has been violated, and your psycho babble of reflecting what you think you hear is utterly useless to me.
You and Baratunde continue the lovefest that you have with HuffPo's Arianna, and FDL's Jane Hamsher. I have no interest in either or your meeting and befriending them. END OF STORY!
As far as your not being trained journalist, well neither am I, which would make me want to be cognizant of what I write and post in the name of SERVING THE BLACK COMMUNITY. I work full time too, and still find time to put some time and thought into what I comment and post. It isn't always great, but I don't post disrespectful shit about the president, and rants, and post threads without some balanced analysis. Y'all have taught me well in this regard.
As you can see, I'm not buying that excuse.
As with rikyrah's comment about doing it as a LABOR of LOVE, I'll repeat, I wasn't feeling the LOVE!
Initially, I think your (JJP') intentions were honorable, now, NOPE!
You and Jack did JJP a diservice when you left Rikyrah to her own devices and I think you both could have provided her with more support.
We can agree to disagree, and if you want respect, you have to give it.
So if part of the collusion with FDL and HuffPo was to post anti-Obama shit for hits, it worked to get the reactions and the traffic. So how does it feel now that JJP's getting half the traffic that it used to get? HOW'S THAT WORKING FOR YA?
In any case, I have no desire to visit JJP.
In the words of GreenLadyHere, I'M TH-AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAROUGH!
You told it ALL!
When is that going to happen, Jill? Because it's NOT in the responses you've given. Your responses are crock! Are you kidding?
Is selling out the black community for money worth it? You have become no better than Congressman William Jefferson & James Harris!
OMFG! How could you sell out your own people?!?!
Since you're not a trained journalist does that give you the excuse to write misleading headlines & false information about the President?
JJP had become a place that I loved because it was about our people! But not anymore! Y'all kept up the lies & half-truths until you destroyed it.
Good bye, Jill
No it gives them the excuse to trash the POTUS for the all mighty dollar and some airtime. Obama bashing is a hot commodity doncha know!
The site is PlanetPOV. These people are on the money about Arianna Huffington. She's an opportunist that only care about more hits, more traffic and that means more money. The eyes came open for these posters. Why is it so hard for JJP to see this? Talk about being blind in one eye and can't see out of the other!
1. Anyone else notice that Cheryl (aka Jill), did not CONGRATULATE WEESeeYou?
You acknowledge and appreciate some former JJP contributers to your blog, but not one mention of congratulations. Not that it would mean anything to me, because I see clearly where your loyalites lie.
2. Not one mention of accepting responsibility for the outright HATERADE for the President. Your lame excuse of holding POTUS accountable doesn't mean horsehit!
You and the rest of your pals are capitalizing off the "ACCOUNTABILITY' card.
Pbomb's on point. How very, very, "Travenesque" of y'all.......
Toodles! Continued Happy Travels!
Of course, I don't agree with everything said here or how it's been said, but my purpose here isn't to get defensive. It's really to acknowledge the situation, and let you know that "we see you" as well. I'm not sure how much more back and forth we'll have via these comments, or if we'll just ask you to monitor the site over the coming months. Either way, thanks for holding US accountable.
BTW, nice blog design :)
Sincerely & peace,
- Scattered Jack
If we were harsh about what we said, it's because we are passionate and pissed about how the President and this administration is getting an unfair shake at things. I am pretty young, but I remember the treatment that previous administrations have gotten and it doesn't compare.
We know that there are other external forces and the media will hold Obama to an impossibly higher standard just to see him fail. JJP was suppose to be an escape from that.
Thanks again for acknowledging our opinions.
Your honesty was refreshing.